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Views and Counter-Views
When can mainstream imams, pastors, or rabbis rationalize, condone, or avoid condemning the killing of children?
Compassion in New Testament, Quran, and Torah
New Testament
Shout for joy, you heavens; rejoice, you earth; burst into song, you mountains! For the Lord comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones. — Isaiah 49:13
Quran & Hadith
- And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], but to bring compassion to the worlds — AlAnbia 21/107
- God, the compassionate, will bestow His compassion on those who are compassionate to others. Show mercy and compassion to all creations on earth, so HE might show compassion to you — Sunan Abi Dawud 4941
- We ordain unto the children of Israel that if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind — AlMa'idah 5/32
- God composed compassion of one hundred portions (or pieces), kept ninety-nine portions for himself, and sent one portion down to Earth. Because of that single portion, His creations are compassionate to each other, including the act of a mare {female horse) when it lifts its hoofs away from its foal (baby horse), lest it trample on it —
Torah (Old Testament)
- The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The Lord is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made — Psalm 145:8-9.
- Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.— Psalm 51:1
- As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him. — Psalm 103:13
- The Lord is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion. — Psalm 116:5.
- And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” — Exodus 33:19
Violence in the Quran, New Testement, and Torah
New Testement
- Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34)
- Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me (Luke 19-27)
Christian Commentary
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Quran
- "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," (Quran, 9:5).
- "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."
- "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."
- "strike off" the heads of unbelievers.
Muslim Commentary
- All verses address the "unbelivers" meaning they are adults who chose to unbelive.
- All verses are viable only in the context in which they have been revealed, case by case
Torah
- Blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock (psalm 137-9)
- But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey (Samuel 15:3)
- Condemn to death anyone who offers sacrifices to any god except to me, the Lord (Exodus 22:20)
Jewish Commentary
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Questions & Answers
First: Question To Muslim Imams
Why do some mainstream Muslim Imams (majority Sunni Sect) rationalize or endorse, today, the killing of Christian or Jewish children and other innocent civilians in the name of Allah? Explain why, from their perspective, and the root cause of this behavior.
Muslim Response
Today and based on my personal observation, very few Imams do but definitely not many.
Here is why:
Today, ordinary Muslims see tens or millions of Muslim children and adults killed, maimed, violated, rapped, suppressed, or displaced for years, decades, or centuries as a result of military invasions of Muslim lands by primarily Christian nations. Examples include the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya and current intervention in Syria, Serbia's military intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo, US invasion and destabilization of Iraq, Israeli continuing occupation of Palestine, etc. Today’s communication technologies (Internet, cell phones, etc.) broadcast stories of death and suffering to worldwide Muslims and deepen the feelings of Muslim frustration and despair. Just as most Westerners can view all Muslims as being cut from the same cloth, so too many Muslims fail to distinguish between the various religious denominations or cultures in the USA and Europe, including Russia, stereotyping them all as “Christians.” As a result and in an effort to stop the endless and continuing bloodshed, today, some imams in the Muslim mainland use the "Eye for an Eye" law of retaliation to support killing peaceful Christian and Jewish civilians, including children. Furthermore, some Muslim imams support the notion of “holy war” against Christians and Jews, whether civilians living as minorities in the Muslim mainland or military and approve taking them as prisoners or slaves.
Root Cause:
Today, most Muslims believe that the root cause of this ungodly and un-Islamic behavior by some Imams is not the Islamic faith but elected Western regimes that represent primarily Christians because they ordered the military invasions of Muslim land.
Here is why:
Today, ordinary Muslims see tens or millions of Muslim children and adults killed, maimed, violated, rapped, suppressed, or displaced for years, decades, or centuries as a result of military invasions of Muslim lands by primarily Christian nations. Examples include the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya and current intervention in Syria, Serbia's military intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo, US invasion and destabilization of Iraq, Israeli continuing occupation of Palestine, etc. Today’s communication technologies (Internet, cell phones, etc.) broadcast stories of death and suffering to worldwide Muslims and deepen the feelings of Muslim frustration and despair. Just as most Westerners can view all Muslims as being cut from the same cloth, so too many Muslims fail to distinguish between the various religious denominations or cultures in the USA and Europe, including Russia, stereotyping them all as “Christians.” As a result and in an effort to stop the endless and continuing bloodshed, today, some imams in the Muslim mainland use the "Eye for an Eye" law of retaliation to support killing peaceful Christian and Jewish civilians, including children. Furthermore, some Muslim imams support the notion of “holy war” against Christians and Jews, whether civilians living as minorities in the Muslim mainland or military and approve taking them as prisoners or slaves.
Root Cause:
Today, most Muslims believe that the root cause of this ungodly and un-Islamic behavior by some Imams is not the Islamic faith but elected Western regimes that represent primarily Christians because they ordered the military invasions of Muslim land.
Christian Counter-Response
No Counter-Response Yet
Please contribute by answering or commenting on the answer above
Question To Christian Pastors
Why do some/most mainstream Christian pastors in the USA and Europe, today, condone “collateral damage" of US military invasions of other nations even though no immediate eminent risk might be present and the number of victims, including children, might exceed hundreds of thousands (e.g., Iraq embargo and war, etc.)? Doesn't that create a culture, in primarily Christian nations, that rationalizes the killing of “other” children in the name of their country? Explain why, from their perspective, and the root cause of this behavior.
Christian Response
It is fair to say that many "Christian pastors in the USA ... condone 'collateral damage'" in warfare. I am doubtful that "most" pastors feel this way.
Here is why:
A strict reading of "just war" terms which prohibits engaging in violence against innocents has too often been replaced by political expediency and similar rationalizations to justify relative indifference to and even acceptance of the loss of innocent lives. The coining of the term "collateral damage" in itself should be offensive to any person of genuine faith. Yes, such postures by Christian leaders extend to regarding Palestinians less than Israelis, regarding Central American immigrant families less than European immigrant families, and for refugees from Middle Eastern and African conflicts for whom the door to sanctuary in the US has been effectively closed today. In no way do such postures reflect the best biblical counsel regarding care for the alien and sojourner, or the teachings of Jesus who sought to advance a Kingdom of equity, justice, peace, and new life.
Root Cause:
Here is why:
A strict reading of "just war" terms which prohibits engaging in violence against innocents has too often been replaced by political expediency and similar rationalizations to justify relative indifference to and even acceptance of the loss of innocent lives. The coining of the term "collateral damage" in itself should be offensive to any person of genuine faith. Yes, such postures by Christian leaders extend to regarding Palestinians less than Israelis, regarding Central American immigrant families less than European immigrant families, and for refugees from Middle Eastern and African conflicts for whom the door to sanctuary in the US has been effectively closed today. In no way do such postures reflect the best biblical counsel regarding care for the alien and sojourner, or the teachings of Jesus who sought to advance a Kingdom of equity, justice, peace, and new life.
Root Cause:
Muslim Counter-Response
Admin:
This response elaborates on the problem but does not address the root cause as requested:
Why some pastors "replace" political expediency to justify acceptance of the loss of innocent lives? Is it lack of proper Christian education? is it a certain interpretation of some Bible verses (if yes, please specify). Is it that the pastors give national interests precedence over God's divine guidance (so they are not accused of being unpatriotic)? After all, Christians are well known for preaching love in normal conditions.
This response elaborates on the problem but does not address the root cause as requested:
Why some pastors "replace" political expediency to justify acceptance of the loss of innocent lives? Is it lack of proper Christian education? is it a certain interpretation of some Bible verses (if yes, please specify). Is it that the pastors give national interests precedence over God's divine guidance (so they are not accused of being unpatriotic)? After all, Christians are well known for preaching love in normal conditions.
Please contribute to answering this question here
Question To Christian Pastors
Why do some mainstream Christian pastors in the USA and Europe, today, condone and rationalize, in the name of the loving Jesus, the injustice that displaced the whole Palestinian nation and victimized millions of children? Moreover, some pastors currently push for solutions that legitimize the outcome of the war crimes that drove the Palestinians away from home (i.e., relocate or compensate the victims but keep them away from their homes). Explain why, from their perspective, and the root cause of this behavior.
Christian Response
Christian Response A (by a pastor)
"True peace- and God-loving Christians have a pure personal relationship with God and feel a strong connection in spirit and soul. Through God, they live their lives and follow the path laid out before Him, for they are his children adopted into the royal family of God Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This happens only after they, true Christians, chose by their own God given free well to live through Jesus Christ the unblemished, pure and perfect Lamb of God. .. We must understand that there are no perfect people, everyone makes mistakes and those who are earnest in what they seek receive God's grace and mercy and are forgiven as many times as necessary."
"True peace- and God-loving Christians have a pure personal relationship with God and feel a strong connection in spirit and soul. Through God, they live their lives and follow the path laid out before Him, for they are his children adopted into the royal family of God Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This happens only after they, true Christians, chose by their own God given free well to live through Jesus Christ the unblemished, pure and perfect Lamb of God. .. We must understand that there are no perfect people, everyone makes mistakes and those who are earnest in what they seek receive God's grace and mercy and are forgiven as many times as necessary."
Muslim Counter-Response
Since this answer is in response to the question above, then peace- and God-loving Christians use the same rationalization most extremists of all faiths use when "others" are hurt. To make clear, I will combine the question with the answer:
"True peace- and God-loving Christians" condone and rationalize, in the name of the loving Jesus, the injustice that displaced the whole Palestinian nation and victimized millions of children because of their "pure personal relationship with God" and because they "feel a strong connection in spirit and soul. Through God, they live their lives and follow the path laid out before Him, for they are his children adopted into the royal family of God Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This happens only after they, true Christians, chose by their own God given free well to live through Jesus Christ the unblemished, pure and perfect Lamb of God". If Christians make any mistakes when dealing with the suffering of the innocent Palestinian victims or children, then "we must understand that there are no perfect people, everyone makes mistakes and those who are earnest in what they seek receive God's grace and mercy and are forgiven as many times as necessary."
"True peace- and God-loving Christians" condone and rationalize, in the name of the loving Jesus, the injustice that displaced the whole Palestinian nation and victimized millions of children because of their "pure personal relationship with God" and because they "feel a strong connection in spirit and soul. Through God, they live their lives and follow the path laid out before Him, for they are his children adopted into the royal family of God Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This happens only after they, true Christians, chose by their own God given free well to live through Jesus Christ the unblemished, pure and perfect Lamb of God". If Christians make any mistakes when dealing with the suffering of the innocent Palestinian victims or children, then "we must understand that there are no perfect people, everyone makes mistakes and those who are earnest in what they seek receive God's grace and mercy and are forgiven as many times as necessary."
Christian Response B: Below is a conclusion made by a Muslim about Christians based on extensive email exchanges:
"Peace- and God-loving Christians focus on God’s will, wisdom, and doings in the Holy Land and that distracts them from giving attention or show empathy to victim children that are hurt because of God’s will. Deep down in their hearts, Peace- and God-loving Christians know that they should help, stand for, and save the children but their upbringing, emotions, culture, norms, and expectations keep or oblige them to overlook the victims. Moreover, anyone that expresses words of sympathy or support to the rights of Palestinian children might be viewed as unchristian and/or anti-Jesus."
"Peace- and God-loving Christians focus on God’s will, wisdom, and doings in the Holy Land and that distracts them from giving attention or show empathy to victim children that are hurt because of God’s will. Deep down in their hearts, Peace- and God-loving Christians know that they should help, stand for, and save the children but their upbringing, emotions, culture, norms, and expectations keep or oblige them to overlook the victims. Moreover, anyone that expresses words of sympathy or support to the rights of Palestinian children might be viewed as unchristian and/or anti-Jesus."
This response sounds like it is given by someone who is trying to find an excuse for his friends.
Christian Response C: Below is a conclusion made by a Muslim about Christians based on extensive email exchanges on this subject:
Peace- and God-Loving true Christians do not believe they condone or rationalizing the suffering of Palestinian children because:
They deny or are not aware of the struggle and suffering of innocent Palestinian refugees or their children.They believe the claimed Palestinian suffering is exaggerated or unreal. For example: A) They do not believe there are about 1.4 million displaced Palestinians currently in refugee camps. B) They believe that Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank are treated with respect. C) They believe that news of Palestinian children arrests or suffering, in general, is fake news. The Palestinians have been offered an alternative homeland of their own but they did not take the offer because of hatred to the Jews. This lost opportunity exonerates Christians and only Palestinians can be blamed for it"
Peace- and God-Loving true Christians do not believe they condone or rationalizing the suffering of Palestinian children because:
They deny or are not aware of the struggle and suffering of innocent Palestinian refugees or their children.They believe the claimed Palestinian suffering is exaggerated or unreal. For example: A) They do not believe there are about 1.4 million displaced Palestinians currently in refugee camps. B) They believe that Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank are treated with respect. C) They believe that news of Palestinian children arrests or suffering, in general, is fake news. The Palestinians have been offered an alternative homeland of their own but they did not take the offer because of hatred to the Jews. This lost opportunity exonerates Christians and only Palestinians can be blamed for it"
I agree that most Christians do not realize or recognize that they condone and also rationalize the human tragedy that struck the Palestinians. This behavior is natural when people do not see first-hand the human suffering of their victims.
In my opinion, lack of knowledge of Palestinian suffering is a legitimate excuse in the eye's of God. Keep in mind that Western media is definitely not neutral. Muslims living in Western nations should partially take blame for being aware of the suffering but failing to educate mainstream Christians of this large-scale but remote human tragedy.
Offering the Palestinians an alternative homeland is an effort to legitimize the outcome of a war crime. Instead of allowing the victims to return home and restoring justice, this efforts basically makes permanent the injustice, awards the aggressor, and encourages similar war crimes because they achieve and legitimize their objectives
In my opinion, lack of knowledge of Palestinian suffering is a legitimate excuse in the eye's of God. Keep in mind that Western media is definitely not neutral. Muslims living in Western nations should partially take blame for being aware of the suffering but failing to educate mainstream Christians of this large-scale but remote human tragedy.
Offering the Palestinians an alternative homeland is an effort to legitimize the outcome of a war crime. Instead of allowing the victims to return home and restoring justice, this efforts basically makes permanent the injustice, awards the aggressor, and encourages similar war crimes because they achieve and legitimize their objectives
Christian Response D: Answer written by a Christian pastor
I think it is fair to say that many "Christian pastors in the USA ... condone and rationalize" the oppressive conditions that Palestinians face under the rule and influence of Israel, but not "most."
Some Christian leaders like .. profess a bizarre Christian-Zionism. The idea that Christians need to support Israeli policies over Palestinians has generally broad appeal, but without complete acceptance of .. type of doctrine. In either case, this orientation is content to accept the police state conditions imposed by Israel, the walling off of Palestinian populations into ghettos, and the erosion of any hope of a two-state resolution that would afford the possibility of peace. No thought of compensation for victims is possible when this is the orientation of many Christians and their leaders."
I think it is fair to say that many "Christian pastors in the USA ... condone and rationalize" the oppressive conditions that Palestinians face under the rule and influence of Israel, but not "most."
Some Christian leaders like .. profess a bizarre Christian-Zionism. The idea that Christians need to support Israeli policies over Palestinians has generally broad appeal, but without complete acceptance of .. type of doctrine. In either case, this orientation is content to accept the police state conditions imposed by Israel, the walling off of Palestinian populations into ghettos, and the erosion of any hope of a two-state resolution that would afford the possibility of peace. No thought of compensation for victims is possible when this is the orientation of many Christians and their leaders."
Response D identifies who rationalizes the oppressive conditions that Palestinians face but but does not explain how. The question remains: How do the bizarre Christian-Zionists rationalize the oppressive conditions under which Palestinian children live, suffer, or are killed?What makes them accept victimizing children to achieve Israeli goals? Bible verses justify the suffering of other humans including children to establish the kingdom of God? God orders establishing his Kingdom at any cost?
Please contribute to answering this question here